real or fake 515-g?

[hifidiot]

Sorry, no photos

I bought these drivers about 10 jears ago from the Altec Lansing pro distributor in the Netherlands (could not think of anywhere else to go). He was happy to sell me his remaining Altec 'stock' to build an A7-500 at a reasonable price (808s, 511E and 515-8Gs). I got the official folders along.

I was a little suspicious about the 515s because they lacked any reference to Altec or a model number: no stickes, no nameplates, no serialnumbers no text or numbers at all, anywhere!
The vendor had handwritten the modelnumber on the box and called them 'Altec replacment units'.

At close inspection they seemed to be very good building quality and looked identical to the pics on the folder. Actually except from the rubber mounting foam on the front of the basket: on the nameless units this was interrupted at each mountingscrew whole.

I also guessed that a real fake would also have some fake nameplates to convice you of its genuinity.

In the end I bought them; my suspicion helped a little with the price.

Some simple frequency generator-scope impedance measurements used for tunig the reflexport did not show unexpected results.

They have been running satisfactory for many years in my homemade birch plywood 828 cabinets. However I allways kept wandering if these units are the real deal.

Kan anyone enlighten me?

Thanks, Coen

[bowtie427ss]

Hello and welcome Coen,

With some of the late model ferrite 515's, i'm thinking of the 515E in particular(more particularly the "flat" magnet version), if the foilcal on the backplate of the magnet has been removed or omitted during manufacture, it may well render the woofer void of any other immediately recognizable identifying numbers or markings, save maybe for a small square QC stamp usually found on the basket spoke near the input terminals.

There probably should also be a number stamped on the back of the cone itself in white or silver ink, if you can find and post a cone number, i'm sure there are some folks here who can immediately tell you if the cone number is correct for any version of 515.

The original mounting gaskets, both front and rear are actually 4 sections, each section spans 1/4 of the frame's circumference.

In your description you mention 511E horns, those would require a throat adapter to permit correct mounting/use of a small format driver like the 808. If the 808's bolt directly to the 511's, and the throat diameters of the horn and driver match, then they would be 511A or B models. Factory 511E is rare, it has a 1.4 inch throat, 3 bolt flange, and is coated with thick damping material from the factory.

Are there adapters present between the horns and drivers?

[GM]

808's are 1" exit drivers and 511E horns are 1.4" exit and AFAIK there's no proper adapter available, so if these are actually paired up you're not getting good performance from them.

Anyway, AFAIK all Altec drivers will have some identification including its 391xxx date code as well as cone assembly part #.

WRT the 515 specifically, I've never seen an original one without a proper model label, i.e. no 'plain Jane' version of the 515 like the 414, 416 unlabeled units in consumer speakers, but there's folks here who no doubt have seen many more than me, so I'm curious also.

Neither have I seen any Altec woofers with 'rubber mounting foam', though not quite sure what type of material you're trying to describe since there's no such thing unless you mean neoprene, which isn't stiff enough to be used on a heavy driver without fear of warping the frame and reducing available cone excursion without hitting the baffle when mounted from the rear. Nor have I seen any with gasketing that potentially allows air leaks around the mounting hardware.

Regardless, the '90s catalog pictures all show the cork/rubber composite gaskets that I've seen on all but the earliest drivers, so not sure what he sold you: http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ro/1993-40.JPG
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...515g/page1.jpg

GM

[hifidiot]

Hello bowtie,

Thank you for your quick and helpful reply. I am not able to check the units until tonight. I will consequently report my findings.

Now I think of it....they have the OK stamp somewhere.

The 511Es are as you described. A 'large' throat for the 288/288 range of drivers and three mounting holes. Als they are coated and sprayed grey.

Unfortunately the former owner drilled an extra hole in the mounting plate to adept for the two bolt 808s. A silly idea in the light of horn flarecontinuity. I used ther drivers this way and it actually worked out not bad at all.

I also pruchased plumbing (ebay) to adapt properly to my 808s. Actually this made of course some difference, but I found that the throat area of the horns was poorly manufactured. Some hardened compound was blobbed all over the place and I smoothend the throatflare somewhat which helped a lot.

Later on I aquired a pair of 288-Ks, which fitted perfectly. I do not use these units anymore. To much HF for my taste, I also found I liked the 'song' of the alnico 808s better.

Hope to report my findings later on.

regards, Coen

[hifidiot]

GM,

The throat adapter must have been some altec part since the mountingholes fit for both the unit and the horn (2-3 holes). I bought them used in reasonable exterior condition (painted white). Maybe these adaptors are as rare as the 511E itself of intended for another brand...

I have of course no clue if these units are actually 416s or some other LF driver.

I will inspect the gasket tonight for the rubber stuff. I can remember that this mounting stuff did not look like it contained some cork. I also wonder if it is applied to both sides of the mounting plate like in the 515g pictures...
To me this is the most suspicious part of the drivers.

I have had no excursion problems (yet), maybe some air leakage. I however tightend the mounting screws fairly strong, maybe the sqeezed rubber compound has filled the open parts.

gegards, Coen

[hifidiot]

OK,

I inspected one woofer and got the next data:

on the paper cone located behind the terminals in a nice round lettertype: 1803035662

three codes on one of the gasket arms where the terminals are located:
- QC 59 (the 5 was ambiguois might be 6)
- 8937 or 8934 or 893lightningsign
- 027570

The gasket has an inner rubber mounting ring with very possibly cork added to its compound. This inner one completes the circumference of the ring (no interruptions).

The ferrite ring has some small dents in it.

Hope this gives enough information.

regards, Coen

p.s. sorry for the typos

[bfish]

That EVI cone number is correct for the later-day 515 G series, which would also be time-correct per your description. A dealer selling off some stock about that time would be likely too, so I see no reason to doubt any of the dealer's story. Drivers intended for OEM replacement without labels aren't unusual either, when you consider that dealers took care of their commercial installs, and most customers never saw (or cared) what was in the boxes as long as they did their job. Pandering to the label craving, "period-correct" future home user/eBay crowd was never part of the strategy.

[RonSSS]

Can you post a pic of the drivers?
Your 511E's are quite valuable. Might consider selling them and getting the more common 511 with the correct throat.
Ron

[hifidiot]

Thanx for the reassurance that these drivers are genuine. Are they any different from the GPA/Iconic ones from today?

I grabbed my camera and took some hasty shots with near empty battery.

These are the 515s (not my best pics ever):
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">Van ALTEC</td></tr></table>

These are the 511Es:
808, adapter and 3 bolted flange. To bad the extra hole is drilled at the mountinglip side.
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">Van ALTEC</td></tr></table>

here you can have a look at the damping compound:
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">Van ALTEC</td></tr></table>

As I stated in the first post, I am quite happy with this setup so they are not fore sale!

kind regards, Coen